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here is our interview with attorney

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brent kuhn

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so our show started by covering the las

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vegas shooting did you guys get involved

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in that at all you know i did not uh i

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know a lot of the guys that were major

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players in it both in vegas and people

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that uh that came into the market that

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were outside of vegas including texas so

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i followed it uh tragic you know i'm a

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concert promoter and producer by

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background for 20 years too

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so uh i understand understand the issues

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associated to uh crowd instance and

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crowd control better than most lawyers

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do and

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uh you know early on in that one i

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empathize with the crowd but you know

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the shooter came from a hotel uh

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adjacent to it it wasn't really a

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security issue there within the the

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perimeter of the concert

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itself

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and i felt that there was going to be a

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successful settlement it would involve a

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uh political and public relations

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settlement as much as anything else

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because mgm had some defenses to the

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case yeah

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yeah well you know a lot of it comes

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down to foreseeability right and um you

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know there you had the same promoter as

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we have at astroworld live nation

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yeah um

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and then and then you have mgm mgm ended

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up paying a settlement of about 800

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million but it's my understanding that

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that was the max of their insurance

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coverage

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so they didn't have to come out of

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pocket at all

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that's my understanding yeah that's a

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lot of money or particularly for

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somebody that wasn't there on site

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running the show

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right right well they're the ones that

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somehow managed to allow this guy to

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bring i forget the number of weapons i

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used to know all this stuff but you know

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about 50 firearms i think it's good

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a truckload hold up in his room for a

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couple of weeks right right if i didn't

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know that steve wynn was going to

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testify against them if noah for no

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other reason to retaliate for getting

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booted out of bellagio right so that

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screams negligence

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uh as far as live nation goes they kind

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of just got criticized for the exits and

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what they had available as exits and

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in a case of emergency there was no easy

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way

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for everybody to get out which sort of

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reminds you a little bit of what

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happened at astroworld where you know if

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you don't have the venue uh set up

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properly

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to

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the way the emergency of people rushing

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the stage at a concert i mean we've seen

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that many times for me going back to the

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who

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uh and what was that in cincinnati i'm

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old enough to remember it was fortunate

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i wasn't at the who because i did chase

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those concerts around back in the day

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yeah

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so um what is the theory of liability

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here i presume that you plan to sue live

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nation or you already have sued leibniz

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yes sir we did we brought suit against

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uh live nation uh security personnel

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that involved management uh travis scott

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as well individually

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and you know at the end of the day as

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you know jim being a lawyer you don't

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know all the facts going into a case

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and we'll have to do a lot of due

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diligence to to find out who did what

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when and where there will be timelines

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involved when each of these

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defendants to the case

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knew about certain things happening and

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or alternatively should have known

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and the biggest thing

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as you know from what we saw

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in a lot of instances in the past you've

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already done your homework talked about

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the who concert

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festival style concerts have been a

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problem uh here and around the world for

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many decades because as you said the big

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star comes on stage everybody's all

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excited and there's a big rush to get up

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to as close as they can to the star

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artist

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and when you're doing that you have to

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take into account a lot of variables

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including the demographic demographics

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of your crowd how you do have your crowd

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control set up what are your barriers

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where what's your perimeter who's in

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charge and how well you planned and how

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well you execute

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well and this was not the first concert

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at this particular venue why don't you

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just walk us through this it's kind of a

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unique venue

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but as far as you know how many concerts

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have been promoted at this particular

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spot before you know it's used as an

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open field for all sorts of promotional

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activities it's next to the nrg stadium

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which is where the texans nfl football

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team plays which is also next door to

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the old astral world which is also

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across the street from uh or the

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astrodome which was across the street

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from the astral world six flags still

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collected disney world and uh all of

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that compound has a lot of open space

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and it's utilized for a lot of other

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things including these one-off events

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and this travis scott astroworld event

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is held annually uh since uh 2018. last

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year they did not have it because of

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kobe so this would be the third year

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they've run this actual event and in

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between it lots of other events are uh

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performed here i think they're they're

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clearing the stage now so they do a

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nutcracker deal for the holiday

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so but as far as these kind of rowdy

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large concerts has that been limited

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just to the travis scott astroworld

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events that's largest one i know of they

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have had other events out there but the

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scotland is obviously the mega event and

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it has over 50 thousand attended

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and had there been

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serious incidents at the prior travis

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scott events there yes sir there have

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i get another good question as you know

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when you uh you look at these kinds of

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occurrences the first thing is uh

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should they have known better

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uh should they have planned better

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they're the experts and then more

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importantly is did they know better and

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if you've had prior problems that are

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very specific to the same issue you now

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know it's not just that you should have

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known you did know and they've had

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problems with travis scott not only at

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this venue but other venues there were

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entries uh i think it was 2018 or 19

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event that was the same exact event heal

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this year there were crowd control

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problems resulting in injuries that time

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so the red flags were certainly there

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preceding this as you also know there's

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actually pending lawsuits against travis

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scott for people that were injured

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including someone who was paralyzed in

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another instant

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where he

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was purportedly inciting the crowd to

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get overly aggressive

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am i right that there was 500 houston

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police officers assigned to this event

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i didn't know we had that many police

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officers frankly that seems like an

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extraordinary number to me it is a huge

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number i was surprised i saw the same

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number in excess of 500 policemen and

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that uh

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that sounds like a very large number of

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people that were called out for it but

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at least it appears that if that was the

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number that the city did something to

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help give them back up

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yeah and then also i forget the number i

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saw for security personnel but i think

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it was over 500 maybe like 600 security

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personnel yeah i haven't seen it well

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there are a number of different entities

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involved in security specifically and

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indirectly so that number is going to uh

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vary depending on what their official

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title was how many were on site during

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this stage of the concert again this is

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a three-day event a two-day event as

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well all day every day so how many were

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out there at the specific time

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is subject to uh debate as well same

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with the cops it may be that there were

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500 police officers signed at various

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times over the two days but how many of

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them were on scene here

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uh remains to be seen most importantly

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it's important to remember that it's not

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the duty per se of the houston police

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department or other responders or

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rescuers to come in on behalf of the

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city to run his events it's a

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responsibility since it's a private deal

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it's a for-profit deal

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you have live nation others running this

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they're in charge of retaining their own

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security personnel

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to keep the peace so to speak

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well and

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being a promoter yourself i mean

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are aren't you sometimes obligated to

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have a certain number of actual police

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there and in fact maybe they even charge

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the promoter for that yeah you know good

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question that varies uh municipal

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location uh to municipal locations some

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of them have ordinance that require

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certain things in play we've done shows

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around the country in some places they

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want to have their own people

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as a promoter i always want them there

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for two reasons one is it's good to have

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the additional support and it's also

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good for transition a lot of times

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security personnel at these events may

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have a problem with a few individuals in

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the crowd they may have somebody that

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has taken drugs as odd or has been

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drinking too much and it's just causing

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a scene or there's other disputes that

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result in fights or uh

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inappropriate behavior and as a

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consequence you have to like get your

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security to get those people under

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control and reduce or eliminate the risk

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to others but also again get them over

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to law enforcement so they can then

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handle them and take them off to jail so

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it's good to have plenty of them on hand

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so that those transition issues can be

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handled very easily as well

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i'm anticipating a potential defense by

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live nation and the other producers what

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are they well hey we

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had 500 houston police officers there

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they didn't

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intercede in any way or say that we

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should have done something different or

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shut this down or shut that down you

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can't sue the police right so are you

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concerned that that's they're going to

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say hey

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we were just following what the police

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told us to do

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well the police aren't in charge telling

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them what to do they tend to suggest to

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the place where they can use some extra

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help

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if and when they need it or if something

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happens and gets out of hand where the

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police feel like they ought to step in

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but the responsibilities from a command

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center standpoint on all these events

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best with the venue and with the the

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promoters uh here you would have live

279
00:09:27,190 --> 00:09:25,279
nation in them all independently setting

280
00:09:29,750 --> 00:09:27,200
all this up so they can't pass the buck

281
00:09:31,269 --> 00:09:29,760
so to speak and say we hosted this event

282
00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:31,279
and then we had a

283
00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:33,760
very high energy artist who allowed

284
00:09:38,150 --> 00:09:36,000
encouraged people to climb over barriers

285
00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:38,160
and climb over barricades and create a

286
00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:40,080
crowd density problem to where people

287
00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:42,160
were getting killed

288
00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:44,080
and right now the total

289
00:09:47,670 --> 00:09:46,080
dead is

290
00:09:50,949 --> 00:09:47,680
nine the last i heard there were eight

291
00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:50,959
that night one uh that i'm aware of has

292
00:09:54,790 --> 00:09:52,880
passed away since then i also know that

293
00:09:56,870 --> 00:09:54,800
there was a very young boy i think nine

294
00:09:58,230 --> 00:09:56,880
or ten years old that was uh in an

295
00:10:00,710 --> 00:09:58,240
induced coma

296
00:10:02,389 --> 00:10:00,720
uh with a very poor prognosis so uh it

297
00:10:04,949 --> 00:10:02,399
may well be that that count continues to

298
00:10:06,949 --> 00:10:04,959
climb well he yeah that i think was just

299
00:10:09,350 --> 00:10:06,959
announced this morning that he had did

300
00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:09,360
pass away

301
00:10:14,790 --> 00:10:12,480
yes sir yeah and and how about uh

302
00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:14,800
hospitalized uh we know that there were

303
00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:16,240
several hundred people that were treated

304
00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:18,240
on scene according to the early reports

305
00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:20,480
from uh the medical

306
00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:22,320
facilities that were there to triage

307
00:10:25,829 --> 00:10:24,240
people that were hurt on scene i don't

308
00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:25,839
know how many of those were transported

309
00:10:29,990 --> 00:10:27,920
from there to the hospital there were

310
00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:30,000
some other people that were transported

311
00:10:34,389 --> 00:10:32,160
various hospitals on their own once they

312
00:10:36,389 --> 00:10:34,399
left on their own and there have also

313
00:10:39,590 --> 00:10:36,399
been anecdotal reports of the people

314
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:39,600
going to emergency facilities or doctors

315
00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:41,680
since then a lot of times people when

316
00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:42,880
they get out they just want to try to

317
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:44,560
get home first and then regroup and see

318
00:10:48,230 --> 00:10:46,560
if it's some something they they need to

319
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:48,240
independently seek medical attention on

320
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:50,480
but the scope of the people that were

321
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:52,800
seriously hurt is uh you know well into

322
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:54,959
the hundreds if not more

323
00:10:58,630 --> 00:10:56,720
so obviously

324
00:11:00,230 --> 00:10:58,640
something was not done correctly because

325
00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:00,240
10 people are not supposed to die at a

326
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:02,720
concert and hundreds hospitalized and so

327
00:11:07,190 --> 00:11:05,040
on um but

328
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:07,200
what in particular

329
00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:09,760
as we sit and talking today do you

330
00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:12,560
believe um they did wrong

331
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:14,160
we you know jim it goes back to like you

332
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:15,839
said with the who concert the biggest

333
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:17,360
problem with all of these is crowd

334
00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:19,600
control and the crowd control is not

335
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:21,040
just controlling what they're doing and

336
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:22,720
where they're doing it most importantly

337
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:25,440
here is the density how thick does the

338
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:26,640
crowd get

339
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:28,880
and from the who concert and other ones

340
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:31,440
decades ago most venues went to assigned

341
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:32,399
seating

342
00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:35,040
so the the invitation in a standing room

343
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:36,880
only event where people are allowed to

344
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:39,600
just come up and freely go wherever they

345
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:42,480
can pack themselves in is the recipe for

346
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:45,040
the disaster that's the first problem so

347
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:46,720
if you're going to do that you have to

348
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,800
be first and foremost concerned about

349
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:50,800
crowd density issues because when that

350
00:11:55,509 --> 00:11:53,040
crowd gets too thick people can't move

351
00:11:58,230 --> 00:11:55,519
anymore and that compression alone can

352
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:58,240
result in the the types of asphyxiation

353
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:00,880
fatalities that we saw in this case yeah

354
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:03,279
well i am a big concert goer myself and

355
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:05,760
i can tell you that it's still

356
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,360
you probably know this too general

357
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:10,240
admission floor is still very common

358
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:12,240
i've just been to two events in the last

359
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:14,160
three weeks one was a rolling stones

360
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:16,160
concert that had general mission on the

361
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,120
floor

362
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:19,839
um and the other was

363
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:22,160
you ever heard of rufus do sole

364
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,480
i don't know rufus neither did i and so

365
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:26,800
i got invited by some friends to go

366
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:29,279
it's basically an edm you know dj kind

367
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:31,920
of situation oh i got you yes um but

368
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:34,320
this was at a soccer stadium in downtown

369
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:36,639
l.a bank of california which is a new

370
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:37,680
venue

371
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,160
and the entire floor was ga

372
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:42,880
uh and a ton of people but it was just

373
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:45,680
kind of a chill crowd so you know as you

374
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:47,120
pointed out before a lot of it just has

375
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:48,560
to do with the type of people and the

376
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:51,440
type of show well absolutely

377
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:53,120
you know we use uh

378
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,120
you know the uh my production company

379
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:57,040
for example we bring in we have kid

380
00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,120
shows door to explorer

381
00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:01,519
and barney so those are those are low

382
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,480
crowd density concern problems uh but in

383
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:06,160
the uh in the other mainstream artists

384
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:08,880
we do country shows uh those are usually

385
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:10,399
ones that don't result in people want to

386
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:12,079
pack we do some of the old country

387
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,440
george jones and all them when they were

388
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:15,600
around uh those older crowds were never

389
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:17,760
any kind of threat for crowd control but

390
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:20,240
then you do the ones in the rock venues

391
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:22,240
where we've done some of the uh the corn

392
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,240
slip knot which you call heavy metal

393
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:26,160
they get mosh pits and stuff so there's

394
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:27,680
crowd control concerns there i've done

395
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:30,000
hip-hop with nelly and other ones uh

396
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:31,600
certainly those kind of high energy

397
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:34,079
shows uh increase the risk so as a

398
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:35,760
promoter you want to be aware of not

399
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,839
only your artist

400
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,760
but also your venue the layout of your

401
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:41,600
venue and most importantly the

402
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:44,560
demographic of your crowd and travis

403
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:46,880
scott is known to be the high energy

404
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,240
encourage people to keep that high

405
00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:50,160
energy level up those are things you

406
00:13:55,189 --> 00:13:52,240
should be very uh

407
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:55,199
anticipatory of and then he has these

408
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:57,600
razors that are the names they give to

409
00:14:01,750 --> 00:13:59,519
these guys that go to their shows and

410
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:01,760
get kind of amped up and when you know

411
00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:02,959
you have that kind of a crowd

412
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:04,800
demographic you need to be prepared for

413
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:07,600
it and clearly here they were not yeah

414
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:09,519
well it appears that they were certainly

415
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,600
on alert that they knew that they needed

416
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,000
i mean based on this 500 police officer

417
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,399
thing but whatever they put in place

418
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,560
clearly wasn't sufficient i i kind of

419
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:20,880
wonder about staffing because here we

420
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:22,240
are

421
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:23,600
you know just kind of coming out of

422
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:24,800
covid

423
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:26,959
and the level of service

424
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,560
maybe this is a california thing i don't

425
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:30,000
know if it's a texas thing too but the

426
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:32,399
level of service out there right now is

427
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:34,720
not good you've got a lot of people that

428
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:36,560
are new to their jobs

429
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:37,920
uh you know they're having trouble

430
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:39,360
getting people to come back to work a

431
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:40,880
lot of people left jobs and now they're

432
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:42,399
hiring new people

433
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,480
and would not surprise me if you had a

434
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:46,800
lot of very inexperienced security

435
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:48,720
people working there you know you had

436
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:51,040
your lawyer hat on again but uh i've

437
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:52,959
thought the same thing and you're the

438
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,639
only person that i've talked to or read

439
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:58,560
of there are a lot of pundits out there

440
00:15:01,110 --> 00:15:00,160
right now but nobody else has brought

441
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,120
that up

442
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,839
and i do believe that's a concern um i

443
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:05,519
don't know how much of a role it had to

444
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:07,440
play here but we do know that when you

445
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,360
haven't been regularly running shows for

446
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:11,279
a couple of years as a result of coved

447
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:13,680
and social distancing requirements and

448
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:15,279
you get back out you know this show was

449
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,440
canceled last year for for that reason

450
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:19,680
but when you get back into it uh you

451
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:21,760
know there's some rust to knock off dust

452
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,399
to knock off uh retraining training

453
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:26,720
people and retraining

454
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,560
and so you got to get back through that

455
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,880
that curve and it may well be that some

456
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:32,880
of those issues you just brought up and

457
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:35,360
alluded to were part of the underlying

458
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:36,480
reasons

459
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:37,920
that it happened now again at the end of

460
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,560
the day there's an operational plan

461
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:42,720
that wasn't properly prepared and

462
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:44,880
clearly wasn't executed and you can't

463
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,279
blame that on rust uh maybe some of the

464
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,440
execution but the planning itself you're

465
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:51,440
dealing with uh people like live nation

466
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:52,480
that have done

467
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:54,560
tens of thousands of shows around the

468
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,120
world for decades and for them to have

469
00:16:01,350 --> 00:15:59,360
such a piss-poor operational plan that

470
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:01,360
did not even take into account how to

471
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:04,000
deal with crowd controls pretty pathetic

472
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:05,920
i think what you're going to find out is

473
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,320
there was a lot of people at that event

474
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:10,720
that did not have a ticket to that event

475
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:13,040
that crashed the gate are you

476
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,959
hearing about this or looking into this

477
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:16,639
uh yeah we've heard about people

478
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:18,320
crashing the gate i don't know how many

479
00:16:21,749 --> 00:16:19,839
of those were not ticket holders my

480
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,759
suspicion is most of the people were

481
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:23,279
ticket holders but didn't want to wait

482
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:25,120
through the ticket deal i haven't seen

483
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:26,720
any of the videos showing what kind of

484
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,120
congestion there was at the gate

485
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:31,360
but uh it's pretty risky to go all the

486
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,440
way out to this kind of arena and get

487
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:35,120
out there and walk how far you have to

488
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:36,639
walk to get to the gate

489
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:39,199
uh to not have a ticket uh to try to get

490
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:41,839
in uh and turned away but there may have

491
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:43,920
been some entrepreneurs that that

492
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:45,120
thought they could get out there and do

493
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:46,480
that i don't think that's really going

494
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,880
to be where the big traffic uh came from

495
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:50,240
so in other words you you believe

496
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:51,360
because you know they talked about it

497
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:53,920
being a crowd of fifty thousand

498
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,680
um so

499
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,839
presumably they thought that a fifty

500
00:17:01,189 --> 00:17:00,079
thousand person crowd was

501
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:01,199
safe

502
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:02,320
um

503
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:04,480
you don't think necessarily that they

504
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,039
let in even more than 50 000 uh um

505
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:09,520
inadvertently well uh yeah obviously

506
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:10,559
they wouldn't have been able to control

507
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:12,160
that to some level again you would say

508
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:13,360
maybe your perimeter should have been

509
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,439
better but this is in a big open area

510
00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:17,280
there's lots of places people could try

511
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:19,679
to sneak in and i have no doubt a few

512
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:21,839
people made it through that that did not

513
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:24,319
have tickets well there is video i you

514
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:25,360
know just in preparing for this

515
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,959
interview i you know dug around on

516
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,319
youtube a little bit and checked out

517
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,320
video and there's definitely video of

518
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:33,039
people crashing the entrance

519
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:34,960
to your point did they have a ticket did

520
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:36,880
they not are they just rushing through

521
00:17:39,029 --> 00:17:37,840
um

522
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:39,039
but you know they're going through metal

523
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:40,320
detectors

524
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:42,160
and there's no

525
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:43,760
security at all at the metal detector

526
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:45,039
usually there's somebody standing at the

527
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:47,200
metal detector that if it goes off then

528
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:48,960
they stop you these people are just

529
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:50,000
crashing right through the metal

530
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:51,919
detectors well and this is one of the

531
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:53,919
first big shows being run with live

532
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:57,039
nation uh after mgm

533
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:59,679
and so all the more important to be sure

534
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:01,440
that you uh you're very well manned

535
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:03,120
there and you're properly monitoring all

536
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:05,360
of the uh security particularly the

537
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,039
metal detectors well just a little

538
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:09,120
anecdotal story from me going back to

539
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:10,799
this roof is still sold

540
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:12,160
concert which will give you an idea on

541
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:15,200
staffing issues so normally when you're

542
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:17,120
entering event there's the guy that

543
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:18,640
scans your ticket

544
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:20,080
can be kind of a pain everything's

545
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:22,400
electronic now or scanning your phone

546
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:23,760
you know i shouldn't even say ticket

547
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:25,440
these days it's your phone

548
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:26,880
yeah so

549
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:29,440
we're in a huge group of people trying

550
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:31,200
to get through the stalls i mean we it

551
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:33,039
took us you know that you know you got

552
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,679
to show your vax card here and so on but

553
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:37,440
it took us probably 25 minutes to enter

554
00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:38,960
the venue but when we probably finally

555
00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:40,320
get to the point where

556
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:42,320
you're gonna show your ticket there was

557
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:45,120
nobody there it was a turn style like a

558
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:46,240
subway

559
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,559
you're a skier and you've been through

560
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:52,480
lift lines lately where it's there's

561
00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:55,120
nobody manning it you scan your phone

562
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:56,640
against the scanner and then the turn

563
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:59,039
style moves once well a lot of people

564
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,120
are having problems including our group

565
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,760
and it was so easy to simply walk around

566
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:05,280
the turnstile

567
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:06,480
that that's what we ended up doing

568
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:07,840
because we didn't want to hold the crowd

569
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:09,280
up we're having trouble having it scan

570
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:10,720
the tick and we're like screw it we just

571
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:13,039
walked right in yes i don't understand

572
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:14,720
how they do that in grocery stores right

573
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:17,200
now so right right yeah it certainly

574
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,080
invites i mean it's uh you know it's one

575
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:22,400
thing to to do the trust and verify but

576
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:24,080
they're on the policy of just trust

577
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:24,960
alone

578
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:26,880
and that'll that also as you know

579
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:29,120
invites i mean you're talking about

580
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:30,720
this crowd in particular being a

581
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:33,600
relatively young crowd uh travis scott's

582
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,480
uh age group is a 15 to 25 group

583
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:39,280
primarily so uh you know they're they're

584
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:40,880
younger they're enthusiastic they're

585
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:42,080
high energy

586
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:44,640
uh they're low patients and certainly it

587
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:46,400
invites all the things that you just

588
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:48,160
mentioned that's what you'd expect them

589
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:49,600
to do not just like you wouldn't want

590
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:50,880
them to do it but you would expect them

591
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:54,160
to do it so i was also very surprised to

592
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:56,559
hear some of the ages you mentioned a

593
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:59,280
nine-year-old who apparently has now

594
00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:00,240
passed

595
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:02,240
shouldn't there be age requirements for

596
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:04,480
events like this you know in my house

597
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:06,720
there is but i can't control the rules

598
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,559
everywhere else but my

599
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:10,559
my youngest is eight and he would not be

600
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:12,559
allowed to go to travis scott concert

601
00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:13,919
well yeah the first shocking thing is

602
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:15,760
that a parent would think for two

603
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:17,600
seconds it was a good idea to bring a

604
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:20,400
nine-year-old uh to this but i mean i i

605
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,280
think anyone under 18

606
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,080
uh probably shouldn't be well

607
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:28,960
his shows are rated r and so i think

608
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:30,799
that the eighth group and coming to that

609
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,720
should be reflective of

610
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,039
the language of the artist and uh and

611
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:37,679
what their show's about but they they do

612
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:39,440
this in conjunction in defense of

613
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,360
parents that would bring a kid

614
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,440
uh is that there's a carnival that's

615
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:45,039
attached to this again this whole

616
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:47,200
complex is part of the landscape of the

617
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,919
old original astroworld entertainment

618
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:51,679
place with the roller coasters and the

619
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,159
astrodome it's all generally the same

620
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,240
old layout and what scott had tried to

621
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:58,559
do is rehabilitate some of that

622
00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:00,400
nostalgia of the old basketball with

623
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:02,240
this carnival deal and it does encourage

624
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:03,919
a lot of people to bring their kids and

625
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:05,360
once the kids are out there for all of

626
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,720
that and you also have to remember

627
00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:08,320
there's a lot of other artists out there

628
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:10,400
other than travis scott and it's pretty

629
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,919
easy for them to go ahead and take their

630
00:21:15,909 --> 00:21:13,600
youngins in tow whether the parents

631
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,919
wanted to see them or whether the kids

632
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,679
wanted to see them but uh you know my

633
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:19,520
wife's a big travis scott

634
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:22,080
and uh i'm not particularly into hip-hop

635
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:23,200
but uh

636
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:25,440
uh i respect the talent of those guys uh

637
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:26,640
but again

638
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:29,280
uh you know you start wondering about

639
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:30,799
i don't think that's a risk issue for

640
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:32,080
little kids i don't see what parents

641
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:33,919
would have foreseen those kinds of risks

642
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:36,080
going in but uh but certainly they're a

643
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:37,679
more vulnerable crowd you know the

644
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:40,080
smaller kids uh they're not as big and

645
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,520
strong to defend themselves if they do

646
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:43,440
get caught up in a crowd

647
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:44,799
so let's talk a little bit more about

648
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:46,480
travis scott

649
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:47,760
um

650
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:52,080
you do plan to sue him as well as yes

651
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:55,200
yes and what is the significance of

652
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:57,280
suing him why why

653
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:59,840
sue him well you soon as you know as a

654
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:01,840
lawyer you sue everybody that you think

655
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:04,400
is legally culpable there may be other

656
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:06,000
people that are morally culpable there

657
00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:07,919
may be other people that that should or

658
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:09,280
could have done something the question

659
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:11,120
is you know under the the laws of

660
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:13,600
negligences was there a duty and did

661
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:15,440
they breach that duty and you use the

662
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:17,039
magic words earlier which is a

663
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,400
reasonable person

664
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:20,559
so then you have to say did travis god

665
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:22,880
breach the duties of a reasonable person

666
00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:26,640
in not doing anything to affirmatively

667
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:27,520
to

668
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:34,159
that he had done in the past that had

669
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:36,400
resulted in injuries in the past now he

670
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,159
can come back and say hey i'm that kind

671
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:40,240
of a guy that's who they promote and

672
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:41,760
that's what they promote me to do and

673
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,600
it's all on them to make sure that when

674
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:45,360
i get these amped up folks that are

675
00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:47,520
called razors and other people in in a

676
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:49,679
congested area that we don't have this

677
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,320
problem but that's passing the buck he's

678
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:54,799
not a kid you know he's a grown-up and

679
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:56,320
he needs to have grown up and needs to

680
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:58,159
accept grown-up responsibility for his

681
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,400
role uh he did not have to egg that

682
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:02,400
crowd on like he did and even though he

683
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:05,679
does that as an artist he uh certainly

684
00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:07,760
could have now it'll get debated later

685
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:08,880
whether he

686
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:10,240
he he should have under the

687
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:11,919
circumstances but shut it down i think

688
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,520
there was a brief moment at one period

689
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:15,600
early in his show that he did see

690
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:17,039
something and stopped for a minute to

691
00:23:21,029 --> 00:23:18,720
ask something and then right on the

692
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:21,039
heels that said let's crank it all up

693
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:24,080
but he can as an artist

694
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,120
but me being in this business before

695
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:28,640
he can

696
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:32,559
things down and cause a break you can't

697
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,640
take a recess i've had to personally

698
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:36,960
take artists off the stage before that

699
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:39,280
were causing problems with the crowd he

700
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:40,640
wasn't causing the problem with the

701
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:42,240
crowd for safety he was getting them too

702
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:44,240
worked up and it was very clear that

703
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:45,600
there were people that had breached the

704
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:48,320
perimeter breached the barricades and he

705
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:49,120
uh

706
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:50,799
he has a history of encouraging that

707
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,880
kind of behavior because he likes to get

708
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:54,480
all jammed up up there and it has to be

709
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:56,559
an appreciation for the fact if you do

710
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:59,039
that some folks are going to get hurt

711
00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:00,799
yeah no i think it's pretty clear that

712
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:02,480
there was at least a couple times when

713
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:04,320
he was aware apparently he did see the

714
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:05,679
ambulance

715
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,240
uh mid show and apparently at one point

716
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,640
he did call out because he saw somebody

717
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,480
having a problem or it collapsed and

718
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:14,480
kind of called security to go over there

719
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:17,279
and help and in both circumstances kept

720
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:18,559
the show going

721
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,919
but you know at the end of the day you

722
00:24:24,149 --> 00:24:22,080
have to say where was managed where was

723
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:24,159
live nation where was security where was

724
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,840
everyone else when we already know just

725
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:27,760
from what's being reported on

726
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:29,279
individually from

727
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,799
persons such as yourself with other

728
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:32,799
interviews and what the other press

729
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:34,480
report on we know that there's a

730
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,320
timeline of a lot of activity a lot of

731
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:38,320
chatter on the walkie-talkies about

732
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:40,400
problems serious health problems with

733
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:41,279
people

734
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:44,960
uh in the many minutes before drake even

735
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:46,400
got on the show and certainly for the

736
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:48,880
next 30 40 minutes after he was and yet

737
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:51,679
there was nothing ever done by anyone

738
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:53,919
that we're aware of that many of whom

739
00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:55,200
were officially assigned those

740
00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:58,240
responsibilities of making any effort to

741
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:00,799
to shut it down even briefly or to do

742
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:02,640
something to temper that crowd up front

743
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:03,919
and to get the relief in there that

744
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:05,919
needed to be done yeah in my opinion

745
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:07,279
that's unconscionable i've been doing

746
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:08,880
this as a promoter 20 years i've been

747
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:11,360
doing this as a lawyer 35 years and i

748
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:13,360
haven't seen that level of apathy by so

749
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:15,120
many people that were charged with that

750
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:17,279
responsibility in the case in a long

751
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:18,799
time

752
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:20,640
yeah there's actually people chanting

753
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:22,480
and there's video of this stop the show

754
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:24,080
stop the show

755
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,039
i mean

756
00:25:28,549 --> 00:25:27,520
what kind of concert goers chant stop

757
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:28,559
the show

758
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:30,159
unless there's something very major

759
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:32,640
going on absolutely and another critical

760
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,320
thing that a lot of people don't talk

761
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,159
about yet but with crowd control there

762
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:38,799
are things that you can see objectively

763
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:41,039
that are critical to it so when you have

764
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:42,640
a crowd out there

765
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:45,200
there's a spacing issue and you as an

766
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:46,880
expert in

767
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:48,960
running a show and knowing how uh your

768
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:51,440
crowds uh where they can be safe where

769
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:53,840
not safe is based on density they had

770
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,080
drones out there that would very easily

771
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:58,080
show you what the density patterns were

772
00:26:01,590 --> 00:26:00,159
for areas of that place and you can

773
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,600
count the number of heads in a certain

774
00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:03,760
area and say this area is too dense

775
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:05,679
based on that density they're going to

776
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:07,200
get into the position where they'll get

777
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,279
trampled or they'll get crushed

778
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:11,120
those things were all objective

779
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,679
measurable tools in their belt at the

780
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,440
time it happened the drones were out

781
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:17,279
there the video was available there the

782
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:19,919
cameras were there the density was known

783
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:22,080
and yet nobody acted on that and that's

784
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,240
a huge red flag in the industry if your

785
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:26,559
density exceeds the safe level you have

786
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:29,279
to act to reduce the density and no one

787
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,799
did here so they can go back and say we

788
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:32,480
didn't know anybody was hurt we didn't

789
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:34,159
know people were getting crushed they

790
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:36,320
can say they didn't know specifically

791
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:38,159
but even if they didn't know which is a

792
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:40,240
big question right now i think a lot of

793
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:42,080
the radio chatter was that a lot of this

794
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:44,159
was known beforehand you look at the

795
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:46,320
density and they all knew that density

796
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:49,039
was there and that was the huge red flag

797
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:51,039
and if you look at that report

798
00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:52,159
that you've talked about you know they

799
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:54,880
have a 60-page operational report

800
00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:57,200
you look at the callousness when they're

801
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,120
saying hey if we get people that die

802
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:01,600
here don't radio in you have dead people

803
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:05,120
radio in that you have smurfs

804
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:13,669
the operational plan specifically talks

805
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:16,080
about the the possibility of exhibit one

806
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:23,830
and you go to page

807
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:29,909
all right here we go yeah you'll love

808
00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:31,919
this i'll say it you show it right up

809
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:33,679
there see where it says traumatic injury

810
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:36,880
resulting in death yep can you read that

811
00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:38,559
no go ahead and read it to us

812
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:40,480
it says

813
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:42,480
notify event control of a suspected

814
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,000
deceased victim utilizing the code smurf

815
00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:48,399
never use the term dead or deceased over

816
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:49,600
the radio

817
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,760
look at that crazy ever seen anything

818
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,520
like that before

819
00:27:57,190 --> 00:27:55,440
i've i've seen some stuff kind of like

820
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:57,200
it but i haven't seen anything this

821
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,200
specific on this kind of issue that yep

822
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:01,039
when we've dealt with all these refined

823
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,799
explosion cases we've seen all kinds of

824
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,799
stuff before too but

825
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:06,960
is that is that report prepared by live

826
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,919
nation

827
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:09,760
uh it's something they contribute to

828
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:11,760
it's the master template for all of them

829
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:13,520
to operate off of on the night of the

830
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:16,000
show so all of the key accuracy would

831
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:18,159
have been privy to that yeah

832
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:19,039
so

833
00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:20,960
what's you mentioned your your your wife

834
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,320
likes travis scott um what is is he oh

835
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:26,720
he's not perfect okay

836
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:27,840
i mean

837
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:29,919
i'm no fan of his a it's just not my

838
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:32,559
kind of music b he just strikes me as a

839
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:35,039
as a thug and uh you know a horrible

840
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:38,640
example to our youth but call me an old

841
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:40,880
fogey i guess but i'm just

842
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:43,200
i'm curious what is his reputation in

843
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:45,840
houston is he hometown hero there i have

844
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:47,679
read reports that he i've read reports

845
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,240
that he does a lot for charity etc how

846
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:52,000
would you describe his reputation in

847
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:54,000
houston you know i i guess that's where

848
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:55,600
you don't judge the book by the cover

849
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:57,360
because uh if you didn't know him you

850
00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:58,720
would draw some of the parallels you

851
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:01,120
just alluded to but uh but what he does

852
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:02,640
in houston i mean he's a great

853
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:04,640
historically he's been very involved

854
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:06,799
with the city at many levels he's done a

855
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:09,200
lot of charity stuff he's a very popular

856
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:10,799
public figure there

857
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:12,399
and um

858
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,720
other than him just being you know

859
00:29:19,029 --> 00:29:16,559
too high energy for his own good on

860
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,039
stage he put on a fantastic show

861
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:21,440
and uh you know his reputation as an

862
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,320
artist uh precedes himself uh that's why

863
00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:26,320
he's one of the top talents out there

864
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:29,200
but by all indications he's always uh

865
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:32,240
been a a good representative of houston

866
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:34,080
in in spite of his entertainment genre

867
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:35,840
being one that's not one of my

868
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:37,520
well but but when you say it's an r

869
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:39,600
rated show you know i don't have his

870
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:41,520
lyrics in front of me but aren't his

871
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:42,559
lyrics

872
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:44,240
pretty r to x-rated and pretty

873
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:46,960
incendiary and a lot and

874
00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:50,240
a lot of this and [\h__\h] that and so on

875
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:51,679
and oh yeah

876
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,720
i would say the language of

877
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:56,399
his stuff the stuff that i've read i

878
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,320
mean i didn't follow him beforehand that

879
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,960
much but i knew generally who he was and

880
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:02,480
he shows up a lot of sports events in

881
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:04,640
houston he gets recognized and stuff by

882
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,600
the announcers and whatever and i knew

883
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,679
generally his genre music because like i

884
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:11,279
said my wife and my oldest daughter

885
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:14,240
listen to it but it's it's crude it's uh

886
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:15,600
you know i grew up on rock and roll and

887
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:16,720
i thought some of the rock and roll

888
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:18,240
stuff was kind of crude i understand my

889
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:20,799
parents said ozzy was demonic but but

890
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:23,440
the reality was it was uh it was a lot

891
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:25,279
milder than uh some of the stuff that's

892
00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:27,039
out there now particularly the very

893
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:28,960
graphic uh sexual references and

894
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:31,120
violence references and stuff like that

895
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:32,320
and that's part of the show and

896
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:33,760
understand it but that's why it audit

897
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,279
they ought to be rated and they you know

898
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:37,360
really kids young kids shouldn't be

899
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,360
exposed to it frankly in my opinion

900
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:41,440
right well how old is your daughter

901
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,320
i've got the 30 year old and a 21 year

902
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:46,080
old so i can't really control too much

903
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,760
what they listen to anymore but the

904
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:49,440
eight-year-old what if you had a what if

905
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:52,399
you had a 14 or 15 year old that was

906
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:53,760
listening to travis scott would that

907
00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:56,000
concern you you know i'd rather her

908
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,519
listen to something else but i think

909
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:59,360
that teenagers are old enough to make

910
00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:00,880
their own decisions there's nothing he

911
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:02,320
says or does they haven't been hearing

912
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:04,080
for years everywhere else anyway it's

913
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:05,840
not like you know i grew up without

914
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:08,399
benefits of cell phones and internet and

915
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:09,760
it's a different day and age now you're

916
00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:12,399
all exposed to all that so i you know my

917
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:14,480
personal preferences would be no but uh

918
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:16,159
but i'd respect their preferences yeah

919
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:18,240
no times have definitely changed i

920
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,320
remember what a big deal it was when i

921
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:22,559
saw my first r-rated movie and i was

922
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:24,640
probably 15 years old and i'm thinking

923
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,240
gosh kids today are probably seeing

924
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:28,559
r-rated at eight years old oh yeah

925
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:30,159
x-rated eight years old it's pretty easy

926
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:32,399
on the phone

927
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:34,960
so uh getting specific to to your case

928
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:40,630
give us kind of a sampling of who you're

929
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:43,840
representing now and are you taking on

930
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:44,960
clients

931
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,720
simply who were attending the event i

932
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:48,559
know with the las vegas shooting that

933
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:50,559
there were certainly claims of ptsd

934
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:53,200
among just about anyone who attended it

935
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,600
yeah we uh as i said most of the cases

936
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:57,360
that we get jim are referred to as from

937
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,159
other law firms and our only initial

938
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:02,000
screening filter is that

939
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:05,279
they were a ticket purchasing attendee

940
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:07,919
um i do not know yet

941
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,120
where we're going to go with the

942
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:11,519
screening on did you go see a doctor

943
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:12,640
physically

944
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:14,080
what if any kind of men will probably

945
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:16,399
have to leave the concert happy or not

946
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:17,679
there will be some gatekeeping

947
00:32:23,029 --> 00:32:20,159
thresholds we'll have to filter through

948
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:23,039
but in that early first round we don't

949
00:32:26,789 --> 00:32:24,640
put that in coming on the lords that are

950
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:26,799
getting the cases to filter those so get

951
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:28,399
them to us we'll identify them we'll

952
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:30,480
talk to them uh and we'll have to go

953
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:32,159
through the the debriefing with them and

954
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:33,760
get the medical records all the typical

955
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:35,279
triage issues you have to do when you're

956
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:36,640
in

957
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:41,760
gonna get justice i mean any settlement

958
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:43,039
is probably going to come from the

959
00:32:47,669 --> 00:32:45,200
insurance companies right

960
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:47,679
uh yeah the vast majority of settlements

961
00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:49,120
come from insurance companies and then

962
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:51,200
if there's no skin off their nose to the

963
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:52,880
individuals that have culpability you

964
00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:54,720
question how much

965
00:32:58,630 --> 00:32:57,919
the the settlement impacts what they do

966
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:58,640
yeah

967
00:33:01,269 --> 00:32:59,679
as you know

968
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:01,279
what happens in these legal arenas

969
00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:02,720
results in what the insurance companies

970
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:04,559
will cover not cover more so that does

971
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,840
change in the conduct of the industry

972
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:07,440
sure and what the insurance company is

973
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:09,279
going to say hey you better have the

974
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:10,799
following in your plans and the

975
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,720
following security before we insure your

976
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:14,559
next event right yeah and as you know

977
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:18,240
many times insurance companies are um

978
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:19,360
you know i'm not going to say they're

979
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:20,720
lazy about it but they're just not

980
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:22,559
attenuated to a lot of these specifics

981
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:24,000
until after the fact then they change

982
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:25,679
their policies accordingly

983
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:28,399
is it possible that travis scott will be

984
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:30,399
when it comes to being able to ensure

985
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:32,640
his future shows

986
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:34,240
he's certainly going to be a harder risk

987
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:36,559
and you know he was already um you know

988
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:38,320
removed from the coachella and a couple

989
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:39,760
of other venues that he had already been

990
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:42,799
retained on and that may be uh maybe

991
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:44,399
insurance coverage issues i don't know

992
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:46,000
it may be that you know

993
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:47,519
at some level

994
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:49,360
the problem is you know is that if you

995
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,039
have civil accountability and you have

996
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:52,960
insurance then you almost have no

997
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:54,480
accountability because your insurance

998
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:55,919
company handles it your insurance

999
00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:58,320
company hires the lawyer the lawyers the

1000
00:34:01,750 --> 00:33:59,840
insurance companies make the decisions

1001
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:01,760
on the payment insurance company is then

1002
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:05,279
funded and there's no uh financial risk

1003
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:08,000
to the uh entities that were insured as

1004
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:10,240
you said even with mgm uh it appears

1005
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:11,599
they had settled for

1006
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:12,960
uh what they had in their insurance

1007
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,839
coverages so as a public policy firm our

1008
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:17,760
firms always worked with legislators

1009
00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:19,599
both in washington and

1010
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:22,000
at the state assembly level uh when

1011
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:23,599
we've had cases like this to try to get

1012
00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:24,879
something done that changes things

1013
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:27,359
legislatively uh when we represented

1014
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:29,200
there's a real bad uh required explosion

1015
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:30,639
that killed a bunch of people down here

1016
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,560
uh 10-15 years ago

1017
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,800
and we worked with a lot of the media i

1018
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:36,720
thought we worked with your producer on

1019
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:38,320
one of those as well

1020
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:41,599
uh but it was uh we brought clients to

1021
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:43,760
washington again this is all on my dime

1022
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,280
but we'll bring them in debrief

1023
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:47,760
congressmen and senators and try to get

1024
00:34:52,069 --> 00:34:50,399
laws passed to make refineries safer so

1025
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:52,079
hopefully out of this we're working with

1026
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,240
experts in this case already that are

1027
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:55,760
working with the panel appointed by

1028
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:58,400
abbott to uh independently investigate

1029
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:00,800
all of this and hopefully come out of it

1030
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:02,800
with not only a checklist of things to

1031
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:04,560
do that should make it safer but

1032
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:05,839
hopefully we can work with them for

1033
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:07,839
legislation that mandates that it'd be

1034
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:10,720
safer and if it isn't done by that

1035
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:12,160
mandate then there's criminal

1036
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:13,440
culpability

1037
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:16,000
uh i use that case to mentioned with a

1038
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:17,680
bp refinery we were able to get the

1039
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:19,040
department of justice to criminally

1040
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:20,400
prosecute

1041
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:21,920
the company in that case and convict

1042
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:24,560
them of 15 counts of manslaughter

1043
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:25,520
so

1044
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,040
when you get that when you bring the

1045
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:29,200
criminal system back in and you can

1046
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:31,760
assign some criminal culpability

1047
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:33,520
that's what starts changing things

1048
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:35,520
because when they're just looking at the

1049
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:37,520
dollar and making the decision of

1050
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,359
whether what kind of security you run

1051
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,680
what kind of crowd control you have how

1052
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:43,440
many tickets can you sell how peop how

1053
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:45,440
many can you cram in there

1054
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:47,440
and there's no personal accountability

1055
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:50,400
civilly financially or criminally uh it

1056
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:52,640
induces them to behave in a manner that

1057
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:55,119
they wouldn't otherwise right

1058
00:35:59,670 --> 00:35:58,000
is there a criminal investigation here

1059
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:59,680
uh reportedly so we haven't talked to

1060
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:00,880
anybody that's involved in that but we

1061
00:36:04,390 --> 00:36:03,119
understand both the fbi and uh

1062
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:04,400
authorities there in houston are both

1063
00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:05,520
looking at

1064
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:07,599
yeah i mean i know he's been charged and

1065
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:10,320
cited twice before for inciting crowds

1066
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:12,320
encouraging them to you know break

1067
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:14,880
through the barricades and so on here it

1068
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:16,480
doesn't appear he said anything like

1069
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:17,920
that but

1070
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:19,599
you know despite knowing about the

1071
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:21,520
ambulance and other problems he's

1072
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:24,079
telling everybody you know rage on and

1073
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:26,800
so on so i don't know he did and then

1074
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:28,640
somebody found a tweet that he had sent

1075
00:36:31,349 --> 00:36:30,079
out a little while back that said

1076
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:31,359
something to the fact that we're going

1077
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:33,040
to help get the crazy ones in the back

1078
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:34,880
door or something might have just been

1079
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:36,960
saying that teasingly but still it's

1080
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:38,720
reflective of a mentality that's

1081
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:41,040
certainly not bordering on the safety

1082
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:44,000
concerns yeah so criminal charges

1083
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:45,680
against travis scott not out of the

1084
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:46,640
question

1085
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:47,920
i don't think criminal charges are out

1086
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:49,440
of question against any of them again

1087
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:51,040
it's too early to really tell where the

1088
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:52,880
dust is going to settle on what they do

1089
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:54,880
and when they do it but i think that

1090
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:58,400
should be something that is discussed uh

1091
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:00,079
as you're doing today bring it up and

1092
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:02,880
keep it a topic and if the

1093
00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:05,040
if the shoe fits they ought to wear it

1094
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:07,359
thank you again to attorney brent kuhn

1095
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:09,920
if you or anyone you know was at the

1096
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:12,800
concert go on our social media and you

1097
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:15,760
can find a link to brent [\h__\h] uh find

1098
00:37:20,829 --> 00:37:18,480
his website or just google him brentcoon

1099
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:20,839
attorney in houston that's

1100
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:23,200
c-o-o-n thank you to our producer

1101
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:24,400
michael parker thank you all for

1102
00:37:27,970 --> 00:37:26,160
listening we'll be back soon with

1103
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:27,980
another episode of the hidden truth show

1104
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,150
thank you for listening to the truth

1105
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:36,800
show with jim breslow you can find us at

1106
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:39,440
hiddentruthshow.com

1107
00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:41,680
follow us on facebook twitter and

1108
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:44,480
instagram that hit the truth show

1109
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:46,160
join us again next week for another